To Whom It May Concern or anyone that cares to answers,

I don't know if this forum is still being monitored but I thought I'd give it a try.

I have been thinking about how to ask my lab questions but I've never really come up with the right way so I'll just do the best I can and hopefully you can fill in the blanks.

My questions concern choosing a lab or labs that offers the best mix of services i.e. product variety, prices, and individual support. There are so many labs how does one decide which one will suit there needs best? For that matter how does one understand what products would be best to offer?

I have found that there are as many ways for a lab to describe a service as there are labs. Some labs bundle their services so you don't really know how their service compares to their competitors. For example some labs offer Lustre coating as a separate service and some labs include in the cost of the print. Some labs offer lab corrected prints (color correction) and non-lab color corrected prints while some labs only offer prints and don't specify if their prints are color corrected are non-color corrected. I have noticed that some labs add to the confusion by calling this corrected non-corrected service STANDARD PRINT PRICING or CORRECTED PRINT PRICING. Why doesn't the lab just color correct all files like they used to do with print film and leave it at that?

Some labs offer free ordering software, e.g. ROES, LabPrints, or some variation of their own, etc. Some of the software is robust and fairly easy but if you want to design an album it can get quite difficult. Then again some labs, who I won't mention offer a free version of print ordering software but if you want to do anything other than order simple prints you have pay to get the full version and then pay to get the templates. For a small part-time studio or a one photographer part-time studio like me it's just not cost effective to pay for some elaborate album building and presentation print ordering system.

Ok, I realize I have written a lot but have really not asked many questions. I warned you I wasn't sure how to ask my questions.:confused: It gets so confusing that I feel like I need to take a course in understanding labs. Do you know if there is such a course available online like a lab or post production tutorial?

Do most studios/photographers do business with one lab or with several different labs? Do studios/photographers shop around for the best price that will provide the best profit margin and if so is it done on a per job basis?

What kind of tool or tools do most studios/photographers use to keep up with the prices and products offered by the studios? This is something I struggle with constantly. I have no way of efficiently comparing the prices and products of various labs. Is there a software to help do this? It seems like what I end up doing is trying to maintain a price list for each and every lab I have contact with because sometimes I'll get a client that wants something the lab I did business with before doesn't have so I have to turn to another lab so then I have to recalculate my price structure.

Ok, I've rambled and babbled on here. I hope somewhere in this mess you can figure out what I'm trying to ask or help me understand that I'm going about this all wrong and give me a clue. Oh yeah, one last question. If you still shoot film some labs use crop cards with letters used to signify a specific crop size, image ratio, and orientation and the labs want you to card negatives and send them in a glassine. I sort of know how to card a negative but what the heck is a glassine? Is there a class on how to card negatives and use glassines too?

Wow, that is alot. I will try to shed some light on a few of your questions.

QUOTE:
Do most studios/photographers do business with one lab or with several different labs?

I use a few labs.

I use one lab for my schools because they give me the best price per sheet and the best quality for that price.

I use another for proofs, again best price and quality for that product. The same lab I use for the schools has a higher price for color corrected proofs.

For enlargements I use both of these labs depending on what I may need. If I need a good color corrected print I will use one. If I need a great print on different paper types, linen, brush stroked etc I will use the other lab.

Again my reasons are quality, price and products offered.

I know it may seem confusing but I do schools, weddings and portraits so I have different needs for each type of client.

QUOTE:
Why doesn't the lab just color correct all files like they used to do with print film and leave it at that?

I had a gorgeous suriise pic printed from a lab once and when it came back the colors were different, they had color corrected it. I had the same print printed with no corrections and it came back gorgeous, the way I intended it to be. So I think many photographers edit there work and have no need for corrections so this may be a reason labs do two different prices. Maybe smeone else can comment on this one.

As far as compreing prices I have joined quite a few labs or asked for their price lists to compare them. Ultimately it will be quality/price that will win. If you go to trade shows you can get price lists to compare.


As far as album design goes I have not and will not buy "that" version of the software, I use a seperate program to design and I deal specifically with the album compant for the specifications.

I hope I do not confuse you.

Hi Noelle,

Thanks for responding. No you didn't confuse me. Don't you find it confusing using so many labs? Doesn't that mean your profit margin changes based on which lab you use or do you adjust your prices based on which lab you use? What do you use to design albums? How do you present images to your clients? Do you use paper proofs, web galleries, studio projection, computer screening or on a TV monitor?

Hi Noellez,

Thanks for responding. No you didn't confuse me. Don't you find it confusing using so many labs? Doesn't that mean your profit margin changes based on which lab you use or do you adjust your prices based on which lab you use? What do you use to design albums? How do you present images to your clients? Do you use paper proofs, web galleries, studio projection, computer screening or on a TV monitor?

ggivensjr:
Hi Noellez,

Thanks for responding. No you didn't confuse me. Don't you find it confusing using so many labs? Doesn't that mean your profit margin changes based on which lab you use or do you adjust your prices based on which lab you use? What do you use to design albums? How do you present images to your clients? Do you use paper proofs, web galleries, studio projection, computer screening or on a TV monitor?

I use paper 4x6 proofs for weddings and they all go online.

Online proofing for portraits (photostock plus)

I would like to do projection viewing once the new studio is really up and running. The internet goes in tomorrow. (yey!)

No it really is not confusing to me to use the different labs

For schools you need the lowest price unit per 8x10 sheet to make a profit but that same company does not offer just 1 8x10 at that price, it's a volume discount. I use Millers (sister company of MPIX) Easiest school ordering system I have found.

For my regualer enlargements I use MPIX. Price is great and the quality is good. What I mean by regular is no special papers, linen, texture etc.

I have recently added a canvas option to my clients and for that I love Simply Canvas.

For my really special brush stroked, linen paper and extra finishing I go back to Millers for my enlargements. They have many options so it can be a bit confusing at first but once you know what your clients will buy it will be easy.

I have done my best to answer your questions from a lab perspective. There are some great questions here that possibly lots of people have wanted to ask, but didn't. Thanks for taking the time to write them all out.

I have been thinking about how to ask my lab quesgivensjr]To Whom It May Concern or anyone that cares to answers,

I don't know if this forum is still being monitored but I thought I'd give it a try.
We are still here, bring them on

My questions concern choosing a lab or labs that offers the best mix of services i.e. product variety, prices, and individual support. There are so many labs how does one decide which one will suit there needs best? For that matter how does one understand what products would be best to offer?
It really depends on what you as a photographer need. Some studios want to do all of the color management stuff themselves. There are lots of reasons to do this or not to do this. (You can read my article a few months back to give you an idea of how many files you need to be able to do to show a substantial savings to your studio. It is staggering! Some studios don't do it for savings, but for total color control. That is the only reason to do it in my opinion)

I have found that there are as many ways for a lab to describe a service as there are labs. Some labs bundle their services so you don't really know how their service compares to their competitors. For example some labs offer Lustre coating as a separate service and some labs include in the cost of the print. Some labs offer lab corrected prints (color correction) and non-lab color corrected prints while some labs only offer prints and don't specify if their prints are color corrected are non-color corrected. I have noticed that some labs add to the confusion by calling this corrected non-corrected service STANDARD PRINT PRICING or CORRECTED PRINT PRICING. Why doesn't the lab just color correct all files like they used to do with print film and leave it at that? This is an easy one. Photgraphers have asked labs NOT to do it. Labs for the most part prefer having their staff provide the CC and deliver the best possible product all the time. I get so many calls and the complaint usually goes something like this, "It doesn't look the way it dod on my monitor." Then the whole idscussion about color calibrated monitors, brands of monitors, work place lighting and environment, etc. starts up. There are lots of considerations here, and we could fill pagews with dialogue about this problem. I'll be glad to answer any other specific questions you might have.

Some labs offer free ordering software, e.g. ROES, LabPrints, or some variation of their own, etc. Some of the software is robust and fairly easy but if you want to design an album it can get quite difficult. Then again some labs, who I won't mention offer a free version of print ordering software but if you want to do anything other than order simple prints you have pay to get the full version and then pay to get the templates. For a small part-time studio or a one photographer part-time studio like me it's just not cost effective to pay for some elaborate album building and presentation print ordering system. Again, no such thing as a free lunch. ROES and LabPrints charge labs for their software. Some of us have chosen to eat the cost and get it out to simplify ordering. This allows us to lower prices because you do all of the work for us. You crop and do the order entry, saving us labor hours. We in turn reduce prices to you. LabPrints not only charges US for the prints we make through their system, but they charge you for the software. Some labs, (like ours) allow you to earn the software for free in rebates based on order volume. Again, someone has to pay for these conveniences.

Ok, I realize I have written a lot but have really not asked many questions. I warned you I wasn't sure how to ask my questions.:confused: It gets so confusing that I feel like I need to take a course in understanding labs. Do you know if there is such a course available online like a lab or post production tutorial? This is a great place to start. Ask any questions you want to, nothing is really out of bounds as far as I am concerned. One advantage of forums is the free sharing of information. You just need to sort it out and remember that it is free.

Do most studios/photographers do business with one lab or with several different labs? Do studios/photographers shop around for the best price that will provide the best profit margin and if so is it done on a per job basis?

What kind of tool or tools do most studios/photographers use to keep up with the prices and products offered by the studios? This is something I struggle with constantly. I have no way of efficiently comparing the prices and products of various labs. Is there a software to help do this? It seems like what I end up doing is trying to maintain a price list for each and every lab I have contact with because sometimes I'll get a client that wants something the lab I did business with before doesn't have so I have to turn to another lab so then I have to recalculate my price structure.

Ok, I've rambled and babbled on here. I hope somewhere in this mess you can figure out what I'm trying to ask or help me understand that I'm going about this all wrong and give me a clue. Oh yeah, one last question. If you still shoot film some labs use crop cards with letters used to signify a specific crop size, image ratio, and orientation and the labs want you to card negatives and send them in a glassine. I sort of know how to card a negative but what the heck is a glassine? It is the protective envelope that keeps the neg from getting scratched Is there a class on how to card negatives and use glassines too?[/QUOTE]